Episode 145: Action and Alarm- Author EC Hanes Shares Story behind The Bus to Buelah

If you would, a little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down. Well, um, writing about immigration for a lot of people is medicine.

Hello

And welcome to in the rising podcast. My name is Betina brown and I'm your host. And this is really the platform I like to talk about rising up to your best self, living a life that's in alignment with hopes, dreams, goals, awareness, and with that walking away or turning her back from things that are negative and pull us down. And sometimes we need to face things that are negative or pull us down either personally or as a society in order to rise up. We have to look at those things in the eye and be in a place where we may be a little bit uncomfortable. And this episode may very well be uncomfortable, not because I'm, I'm interviewing a fantastic author, EC Haynes, but because of the topic of his latest book, which talks about immigration and drug trafficking and sex trafficking, and also the realization that we may not know a whole story. And I was just reading, uh, a very interesting little, little blurb, I guess, about how our mindset is shifted by what we pay attention to, which is like Batina. No, of course. But do we always pay attention to two sides of a story or are we just so excited about one side, we only see that could we maybe expand and open our point of view if we at least let down the guard to hear other points of view that is really, I believe the rising up of a person that you can be open, even if you feel very strongly about something, but you can open up because that is expansion that is growth and that builds a better life. Hello to you, Mr. Haynes, you are a, a really cool person. I read your bio<laugh> and I, I know you're now an, an author. You you've done a lot, but I would really like to start off with welcome you to in the rising podcast. I really enjoy speaking to authors and kind of what is that motivating factor behind writing your books? Right. And when I first started your, one of your first lines of your bio is that you have a bachelor's in economics from duke. And so I really wondered how did you go from that to, um, writing books or was that always a passion for you?

Well, I think, uh, reading ha has probably with every writer that I know and friends, uh, had better be a passion. If you can see behind me,<laugh>, I'm been sitting in my library and I have collected books, uh, read, you know, since I was in, well, since I was born and my parents, both of my parents were big readers. And, uh, um, my father collected books was a, a joint, you know, literary major and went and then to business, uh, as I did. Um, but nonetheless, you never, if you are a reader and you are curious, um, and you are a player in life, uh, then I don't know, writing just came to me, I guess, naturally, um, you know, it used to be, you actually wrote letters to people and had thoughts passed along. And so, uh, a lot of the background of people is sort of lost unfortunately, but, um, letter writing, um, uh, is like writing a small essay sometimes. And so, um, I think I was always acclimated to that

And, and you're right. A lot of people who write, just have a love of books and a love of reading, and then that transitions into writing you are now, um, you just have a new book that came out as of our talking, um, two days ago. Describe the book for us, please.

The book is, is titled the bus to Bula. Um, I actually, I read an article in Buzzfeed, um, about an, an individual and a business that was bringing, um, migrant, uh, immigrant workers into North Carolina, um, and getting paid for getting the visas, um, North Carolina, some estimates put it at around 220,000 people every year to come in, uh, in the agricultural sector alone, uh, and another enormous number in hospitality. Well, and this guy eventually was indicted on lots of felonies and stuff. It wasn't a, wasn't a nice man. Um, but I was curious about this sort of underlying society and an underlying culture that exists in this state. Um, if you're talking about, uh, you know, 250 or 300,000 people living here for, you know, anywhere from four to six to 10 months, um, you have, uh, people who are virtually, uh, essential for the industry and agriculture in this, in this state and yet are sort of disparaged and, and criticized by an awful of people who don't realize that the food that they're eating is coming from people who are coming across the borders cause Americans won't do this work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and I, when you start, when I started off your book, you know, I live in this Southwest, so this is also a very huge topic in my local state. Um, and as a, as a reader, I did some research. I did not know or think about immigration with North Carolina, I'm just in the Southwest. And it's, I kind of felt like that's where the majority of it was, but you also talked about different work visas. Tell us about how you were curious about that and how you incorporated that into your book.

Well, you know, I, I, every book that I've written, well, the first two novels were based on personal lifetime experiences that I was familiar with. So there wasn't a lot of research on it. Nonetheless, they all dealt with what I thought were some underlying interesting issues. Um, I'm a fiction writer, so I want to tell, uh, stories, um, if you would, a little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down well, um, writing about immigration for a lot of people is medicine. Yeah. So if you put that story in the context of an exciting, uh, um, story, um, with the protagonist that hopefully you care about and follow, and good and bad people and so forth, and you're learning, but at the same time you're being pulled through all of this information, um, on a good ride mm-hmm<affirmative>. So, you know, you can, can look at a lot of great books, um, and realize that the people and the characters in the book taught you a lot about an issue that was important to the author. Uh, the grapes of wrath and Steinbeck told a lot about America at a point in time, but it did. So, um, with some interesting people, yes. Was a good ride.

Yes. How do you feel your own views or opinions changed through your research

In this issue?

Yes.

I, I, I like a lot of people I knew very little, um, about the sheer numbers mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, and about the importance of this enormous, uh, group of people. And then when you read in the paper, um, all of the, uh, critical and, and just quite frankly, ignorance on, you know, an invasion in our country. Well, um, I got a book of, of one of my interviewees, a wonderful woman who is runs a group called, uh, uh, student action with farm workers, wrote a book, um, edited a book with a lot of participants, uh, called the human cost of food. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, and it just points out that, um, this country lives on the sweat of people who are coming here to work. And then we say somehow that these are terrible people taking our jobs and stuff, which is a complete lie. And I didn't realize the scale, you know, I guess two and a half, two, 3 million people in this field necessary to harvest and plant and package and wash and so forth, all the produce that we eat.

Absolutely. And, and I think there's also a human cost of labor period, perhaps now in our post pandemic with help, wanted being everywhere. Um, and a lot of jobs being left empty that we're not used to being left, empty and realizing, um, maybe our own prejudices and biases that we are not aware of that are part of us, but we're not aware of them. They're our

Story. Well, Americans, by and large, won't do this work. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, I mean, I've, I've got numerous, I looked and have numerous, uh, studies of, you know, because the law, the 1986, um, uh, you know, uh, immigration reform act, uh, makes it illegal to hire undocumented workers, but it puts in visas. Um, so you say, well, you know, fine, so fund, so why aren't Americans taking this jobs? You know, in 2012 or 2014, there were 200,000 unemployed, uh, Americans. And yet there were only 1700 who applied for, uh, work, uh, which is required by law. That list jot the, that, that this job, these jobs have to be offered to Americans first. Mm-hmm,<affirmative>, you know, 168 showed up the first day. And at the end of the year, there were seven who had finished the season. So, you know, to say they're taking our jobs, uh, strikes me as being ridiculous.

Yes. Not, yes. Yes. And I think those are important issues. Like you bring it up through your book, through the story, um, of, of the underground that we actually created ourselves. Right. Right. We, we, we are frustrated with a situation that we've created either through our acknowledgement or our UNAC acknowledgment, or ignorance or arrogance with that. What do you feel you would like a, a reader to come away with with this book? Like what is one, one major topic that you'd like their hearts to open up to?

Well, I would like, I guess, um, I didn't write it to necessarily, um, give them a lesson. I wanted it to be an exciting story. I, I want them to have enjoyed this trip. And at the end of it, um, to say, I never really knew, um, that this whole society and that this existed in the country, that we American citizens, you know, who are also all immigrants are no different than these people. They're here to earn a living, to support their family period. You know, now I bring in some people who are pretty nasty, so yeah, we have a human trafficking and prostitution and drugs and, uh, everything to make it, uh, you know, to make it a more exciting and more interesting story because there are, you know, they're negative and downsides to any story. And certainly, uh, when you're dealing in, in people that are desperate, um, there are people who are gonna take advantage of them.

And you talk about that in your story, uh, where the main character becomes involved with something accidentally. Um, but with human trafficking and sex trafficking, you know, we know it's a big deal. We, a lot of times think it's in other countries, but the, you really harp on the not harp, I guess, but bring to light the vulnerability of many people who are here either to a person that brought them here, or even the country that they're working for. That's right. Can expand on that.

Well, the, I, I got into a lot of, um, reading on the, uh, uh, cartels in Mexico, particularly, uh, which are of sort of a competitive group of businesses, as I said, the only difference between those and some of the enormous monopolies in, in, uh, in Mexican companies is that the guys who run these operations, didn't go to Harvard business school. They are a brutal, you know, murderous group of people and sex trafficking, you know, human trafficking, um, and, uh, and drugs and related are all parts of their businesses. So a lot of the people who are coming here are either escaping from them or being sent by them, um, to pay off some debts that maybe their families owe, you know, some of the girls. So my protagonist in this, um, Maria, uh, accidentally over hears, um, two women who are on the bus with her, um, arguing and talking about prostitution and they kid her because they don't want her to, uh, inform on what they've got and it becomes in a race to, uh, find her mm-hmm<affirmative> before she disappears forever.

Right. Right. And, and it does keep you, like, from, from the, from the beginning,<laugh> interested. It, it definitely, it definitely does hopeful

<laugh>,

<laugh> share with, with the readers, you know, uh, where they can find you where they can learn more about your, your current book, but other novels that you've written.

Uh, well, my website is EC Haynes, H a N E s.com. Um, and I've got, you know, uh, my, all my works on there plus books that I've written contributed to, uh, essays and, and that kind of thing. So it's, it's basically on my website.

Perfect. And I will have that posted as well. And final question, what are you, what is still on the rise for what is on your horizon?

Um, well, I hope a lot of years, I mean,<laugh>, you know, at some point you get to a place and you say, well, you know, wow. Uh, what happened to old bill and, you know, old bill was no longer with it. So, uh, you know, but for me, I probably have a couple of more books in me and some essays and, uh, you know, a few short stories and so forth, plus enjoying my grandchildren and my children and, uh, you know, um, some boards and stuff that I'm on. Uh, you know, uh, I do a lot of community work and always have, I was very involved in the arts on a local state and national basis. And that was really the basis for Billy bow water, which was my first book mm-hmm<affirmative>. Um, and, uh, you know, I just stay involved, stay active.

I really enjoyed my conversation, Withey Haynes, and felt, I learned a lot. He took a curiosity about an article and put hours and hours and hours of time into learning more. And that shifted his mindset and helped him create this book. And in the creation of this book also decided to, to gain and push some social responsibility as an awareness. And what I found so interesting about this topic of immigration, especially being the granddaughter of someone who was a refugee, who had to migrate and, and let's face it. Most of us in the country of the United States have been some sort of immigrant, whether it was will for or not, we're here. We can trace our ancestry, usually back to someone else unless we are a native population. So there is always a way that we can be our best defense attorney for ourselves, and yet the best prosecutors for other people, whether it's relationships or over topics. And I feel that this one topic can help us look back and actually get off of either side of that bench. And maybe sit down as a jury to hear, listen to more information, be open to more information, and really allow ourselves to come up with a better decision and mindset, his story. I is a wild story. There's a lot of emotion you feel for the people. And I really loved how EC Hane said, you know, we have added some, some characters in here that are not so nice and, and you know what? We don't need to import people who are not so nice. We have them, we have plenty of Americans who are not so nice as you know, we've seen with our, our shootings again and again, and again and again. So at the end of the day, this is a topic I think that will help us rise up to be better individuals and therefore rise up to be a better nation. The nation that we all underneath, I think, want to be, and the neighbors we want to be the people we want to be. So if you found this topic of interest, I totally, totally totally ask you to share it with other people. Leave this episode of five star review because the more hands and ears we put it in the greater help, it may very well be. If you have anything to say about my topic today, go ahead and email me at, be in the rising.com. I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time let's keep building one another.