Episode 146: Cheryl Ilov: Barely Coping With Trauma and PTSD to Full-Fledged Ninja Warrior

And I firmly believe that everyone does have that warrior spirit inside of them, especially women. And we are so conditioned to ignore that intuition, that strength, that courage of courage, that inner tiger, that inner lions that is in each and every one of us.

Hello. Hello and welcome to in the rising podcast. My name is bet brown, and this is the platform I've chosen to talk about living a life that's in alignment with your hopes, your dreams, and your goals, walking away from shame and blame, and really moving in the direction of things that make you excited to live your life. And over the last two and a half years, while I've been a podcaster, I've had the wonderful opportunity to speak with individuals who are really excited and energized about their life, but also share moments where they have risen up from something. And my guest today is Cheryl I. Love and is truly the example of rising up from something really terrible, really awful. She is a fellow physical therapist, a respiratory therapist, and an expert in her field of martial arts and is technically and truly a ninja or F ninja. So I welcome you to this podcast. You're, you're really an interesting person. I oh,

Thank you.

I think this is amazing Marshall artist, dancer, Pilates instructor, which is on my, my bucket list. Mm-hmm<affirmative> Feld in Christ practitioner. And I said, I like the recovering physical therapist because I'm in there, but you also are legitimately a ninja mm-hmm<affirmative>. So I would like to just start from the beginning.

Okay.

Share a little bit with what, what is your personality? Is your personality, um, was it always this dynamic or is it someone you've kind of grown into right now?

I think it has always been dynamic. Um, even as a child, I was a little bit more, um, tenacious, I think, than my sisters. Although I had a very strong sense of self preservation. I do have two older sisters and two younger sisters. So I came from a family of five girls. Um, so I always had that tenacity of spirit, but always still had, um, an incredible sense of self preservation and caution of like, you know, okay, I wanna not push too far or don't wanna, so, and I've always been interested in things like dance, uh, music, you know, I mean, I'm not a musician, but the softer things in life, you know, and Pilates and pretty things, you know, tutus and toe shoes, pedicures and Pilates, and the thought that eye of all people would end up in a martial art in a smelly dojo with a bunch of hairy men, sweating all over me and punching me and kicking me and throwing me to the ground was something that I never envisioned at any point in my life.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, most of us don't<laugh> most of

Us

Don't and there, and that's what is so interesting about this story? So you, you talk about the softer things and then you also, what we consider or some people consider when we don't know very much is martial arts that we think is just punching, pushing

Mm-hmm<affirmative>

Can you share a little bit, like where you, where you went from, all the things that you, you have listed into an actual dojo, what was the event or series of events that put you in that place that day?

Well, there was one event and it happened when I was 44 and basically I, you know, everything was going great in my life. And I had recently opened up my own physical therapy practice, alternative PT practice. And, um, I walked into a doctor's office just for a routine check as a healthy, vibrant 44 year old woman. And I walked out a statistic. So, you know, it happens, predators are everywhere. And I mean, it was such a horrifying experience and, and, and shocking as it always is, but especially, oh my God, in a doctor's office where I should be the safest place in the world. And so that was a pretty harsh reality. But then when I was, you know, I was also incensed. So my first reaction of course, was to report it, get help, you know, expose this man for what he was to help protect other women from ever having to be in that same situation. Because I even with all the shock, I knew that I was not the first person he ever did this to. And I certainly was not gonna be the last, um, but what happened when I did try and get help, even the people closest to me kind of just shut me down. And I realized, I always wondered why women do not report sexual assault, but I sure understand now because the way I was treated afterwards, when I was trying to get help and trying to report, it was almost as horrific and traumatic as the event itself. So I did what a lot of women and men who might have been assaulted do, uh, stuffed it down inside of me because I wasn't getting any responses. And actually some of the responses I was was getting was pretty horrible, pasted, a big old smile on my face and walked around, pretending like everything was just fine as fate, the universe, God, whomever, whatever would have it just three months after that happened, I was referred by one of my clients that I was working with to an acupuncturist. And I hadn't been to, yeah, I, I love acupuncture and I've been using it for over 30 years for my health and wellbeing. So she, you know, says, why don't you go this guy's wonderful. And of course, nobody knew what my background was or what had happened to me. So I go to this man and the very first time he puts needles in my legs, he got a very far away look on his face and he said, you know, with your legs and my coaching, I could teach you how to kill with these things. Oh, wow.<laugh> and I was literally pinned to the table. You know, I was a captive audience. I couldn't go anywhere. And I thought, whoa, who thinks this way? Let alone says it out loud. And I just thanked him. No, I'll save my killer legs for ballet class. But thanks anyway for thinking to me. And you know, every time I went to for a treatment, he kept talking about the art of the ninja and he kept trying to get me to train with him. He had a dojo right next to his clinic. It was like a little duplex. And so I would see, you know, the people coming and going the men. And I just kept saying no, because it was not in my DNA. Oh, trust me. It was just not something I was interested in at all. Um, and I almost wanted to, you know, I almost thought about going to a different acupuncturist, but he was so good at what he did. And I mean, and I really liked the guy, but he would go on and on about, you know, training and the art of the ninja and women are so good at it. And once you start training, you look at life a completely different way and everything's a weapon and then I'm going, oh my God, just shut up, leave me alone, leave the room, let the needles do their work. Yeah. And you know, we're, we're good. Well, it was about a year later that, you know, the dam broke and everything came spewing out. And I had stopped going to him for a while. And I went back, made an appointment and I told him what happened. And he said, I always knew there was something, but I didn't know exactly what. And from that moment on, and you know, he was treating me for the symptoms and stuff that I was experiencing and his campaign to get me on the mat, went into high gear. And I was like, I don't understand how hanging out in a smelly dojo with a bunch of sweaty, hairy men, you know, is gonna make me feel better. I just don't understand this. So I kept saying no, mm-hmm<affirmative> and thank God, he was more stubborn than I am.<laugh> because it took three years. And finally, after three years, I said, okay, I will take a few classes to prove to you that it's not gonna help me. And to prove to you how much I'm gonna hate it. And then I'll quit. And of course, you know, the rest, as they say is history, but there was something about even that first class. And I have to tell you, oh my gosh, it's, it's really embarrassing. Bet. I was. I mean, I was so out of my element and I was so terrified, but there was, it was like, it was like a last ditch effort. I was so, so desperate. I was suffering so much for three years and I thought I'm willing to try anything, even martial arts, you know, that's gonna make a difference, but there was something about being in the dojo and let's get this clear. I was the only woman, my first class mark, my son say, had said, oh, we have plenty of women to come in, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was funny because even after three years of sitting in his lobby, waiting for him to, you know, do my treatments, I never saw a woman go back and forth, but for somehow that didn't compute in my brain. So I was the only woman, not only the only woman in class, I was the only woman in like a three mile radius. And so I was so, and I had just come from ballet class. So it was really, it's so intimidating. It was so terrifying. But once we started moving, you know, and I was getting some kind of a comfort level and of course they were all treating me with kid gloves here. I am this aging ballet, dancer, you know, middle aged princess, white belt. So they're not, you know, you go very, very gently, you know, cuz you've done, taekwando, you've done martial arts and you know how you bring up the white belts. Um, and it was after we were done, I left the dojo and I giggled the entire way home. And it was like the first time I giggled in a really, really long time. And I'm not saying that one class, you know, completely shifted me out of that. Post-traumatic stress into, you know, health and happiness. Yeah. But there was something about the art of the ninja that was just so seductive and it was so compelling and it was just almost like the siren song. It's just kind of bringing you back. And it was like, okay, I think I'll stay here for a month. You know, I paid a month's tuition mm-hmm<affirmative> and I was shocked the next month I paid another month tuition. Oh, okay. I guess I'm here for another month and this is really interfering with my ballet schedule, but it's okay. And then the third month and I kept going back to class, so there was something that was drawing me in. And at that point in time, I wouldn't be able to express it. And even now it's really hard to express, but I could feel something deep inside of me. You know, I figure I have always had the spirit of a warrior and I firmly believe that everyone does have that warrior spirit inside of them, especially women. And we are so conditioned to ignore that intuition, that strength, that courage of courage, that inner tiger, that inner lions that is in each and every one of us. And over the course of the years that I have been training and I still do trained. Now, the guys had an incredible ability to waken that tiger to bring that, that warrior spirit up, you know, to the full capacity. So it was, it's just, it's been an amazing experience. And I can't say that it was a smooth trajectory all the way through the belts. And I also wanna reiterate that I never planned on being a black belt. I never planned on getting a black belt. I never wanted a black belt. I never even wanted a yellow belt. I didn't even want the white belt, but it came with the uniform. So I had to take it, but my plan, I never planned on testing and it wasn't until three months after I had been at the dojo and one of the guys badged me into testing and finally he badged me enough. He wore me down and it's like, okay, just to shut'em up. So I tested and I got my yellow belt and I thought, well, I don't think I'm gonna do this again. And three months later, the same guy badgered me again. So I got my second degree, yellow belt, but I was still thinking I'm gonna quit and I'm, I'm not gonna continue this. It's just, you know, this is nice. And now I have two belts, so I could prove to people, Hey, look, I had a little six month long martial arts career, but nobody had to Badger me to go for that third test.

Mm-hmm

<affirmative> it was my idea and the things that I was learning and the changes, not only in my body, in my mind, in my brain, in my mood and my spirit. And that's basically the only thing I can say. It just, I kept on going and I never even looked at the black belt. I just wanted to live to survive another day.

Yeah. Yeah. Looking back, looking back now, how do you feel like cuz you weren't, the black belt was not necessarily on your agenda, but neither was that day that started this. Right,

Exactly. Um,

But now when you had, when you, when, you know, and I don't know how that was with you, but usually like a black belt was placed on you, by your sense, or you know that you don't put it on yourself that first time, how, what, what experience did you feel at that moment?

When I got the black belt?

Yes.

There's so much behind that story. Because at that point I was really totally, you know, ticked off at my sense, for a particular reason. And that is gonna be in the book that I'm writing. Um, and I was, I don't know, I think it was a little bit of shock awe and like, is this really happening to me? And he wasn't the one that put the belt on. They, they don't do that in our dojo. They just, you know, hand you the belt and everybody claps and then they come up and they hug you and stuff. Um, but I think that I had gone through so many tests cuz our, the way our dojo is organized and structured. I mean, there are so many different levels as you're going up to the black belt. So I had tested so many times, but, and some of the tests, most of them were pretty good. Um, my first degree, black belt, um, it's a cumulative test of every single thing that you have ever learned the entire time. Yes. You know, in the dojo, including the Japanese blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the, the, my sensei wasn't even in town, he was living in Hawaii at the time. So I had the three top senior black belt, uh, instructors who were testing me and it was gonna be a three and a half hour long test. Yeah. And I knew that and they told me at the very beginning of the test, we are going to try and break you

Like quite and<laugh> yeah.

Hey, I'm so glad I signed up for this. Yeah.<laugh> what was I thinking?

<laugh>

And at the time, uh, my partner, my okay was a young woman. Who's 30 years younger than me. She's half my age. And we, she, we, we were white belts together and then she ended up going to college and she would come back to the dojo and then leave again. But we ended up, she came back again and we ended up training and being really good friends. And we were such an amazing combination because, you know, I was like, you know, grace and, and, and water. And she was power and fire. And so, you know, we were testing partners and while the guys didn't break me, but we did break a foot and it wasn't mine. Oh, I didn't do it. It was just one of the, you know, instructors were doing a particular throw and he gave me a correction. He says, put your shoulder, you know, in this position, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was so exhausted. This was, um, three hours and 10 minutes into the test. And she was exhausted too. And you know, this is somebody who usually doesn't run out of energy. So when I did the throw, it was like, oh my goodness, this is magic. She was spinning through the air. And then when she landed and she has great break, break falls. So she landed really hard. And I went back to my kuai and she was rolling around on the floor with tears, running down her face and her face was a really strange green color. And so I'm, you know, oh my God she's hurt. So I go running to help her. And they're like, come on, come on. Which is, you know, your composure, you have to pretend that this is exactly what was supposed to happen, which it wasn't. And you know, she eventually she got up and they said, are you okay? Can you continue? And she noded. She says, yes, I can continue. And I said, she can't she's hurt. And they're like, Nope, Nope. She says she can continue. So we went on for another 20 minutes.

Oh, wow.

And then when I got that belt, I mean, that was the one that I think had the most impact on me because it was such a brutal test. It was such a rollercoaster ride during the entire three and a half hours and then Vanessa hurting herself. But it wasn't until the next morning that she called me and said, my toe is broken. And then as you know, we found out a little bit more and the x-rays and stuff, and you're a physical therapist. So, you know, and as a physical therapist and when, you know, found out what happened, it's like, well, technically it's not your foot that or not your toe that's broken, it's your foot. Yeah. But, uh, and you know, but she never blamed me. It wasn't my fault. It was the technique that did it. It wasn't me.

Wow. Wow. And so you've been through all of this and now I see this book behind you, cuz I get to talk to you, Uhhuh share what then what trajectory said, I'm gonna write a book.

Well, that's a big one too. Um, one of my sisters, my younger sister is, um, she always would say to me, you should write a book. You should write a book. You're a really good writer. And, and I think you'd really be good at it. And I'm like, how does she, what makes her think? I'm a good writer? You know, how would she know this? And then she wanted me, she goes, why don't you write a book about our family? And my both my parents had recently passed away at that time. And I'm like, okay, I will. And I started writing this story and it was like, no, it's too soon, too soon. Cuz my, both my mom and dad died, um, in November of 2010, just 19 days apart.

Oh wow.

Yeah. And they were in Pennsylvania. So, you know, I was traveling back and forth to help them out. So I thought if I'm gonna write a book, I oughta write something that's going to help my career. You know, establish me as an expert in my field, help me get more clients. So that's why I went with the forever fit and flexible. And so, um, I combine, um, all of the, uh, principles of dance, martial arts, Pilates and Feld in Christ and create a program that people can do, you know, at home. So it's just movement exploration, which is basically how I worked with my clients in my office. And the whole way I developed this interest in health and healing is because I was a chronic pain patient in my mid thirties. And I was told, I mean, it was bad in just a few short months. I went from having some tightness and adult ache in my low back spiraling into a full blown chronic pain syndrome, which I lived with for two and a half years and went to all the doctors, took the medications, went to PTs, did everything I was told, but instead of getting better, I kept getting worse. And it wasn't until one of the doctors told me that I would never be able to do my grocery shopping and my laundry all in the same day because the arthritis in my spine was so severe. I would end up being bedridden.

Mm.

And I just looked at her and I said, you don't understand, I'm planning on going back to ballet class. And she laughed in my face and said, no, you don't understand you are a chronic pain patient. This is what you're going to, you know, you will always be a chronic pain patient. This is the rest of your life. Uh, but don't you worry, we'll take care of you. And then, and then she told me, forget about PT school cuz she knew I was planning on trying to apply to PT school. And she says, even if you could get in or if, if you could do the work, which you can't, you're too broken, you're too injured. She says, you're just too darn old. And I was 36. So I went home, I hit rock bottom and it took a few days and I realized I had an epiphany. I've gotta figure this out on my own. So I fired all the caregivers, um, stopped the medication, stopped doing the stretches and the exercises because they weren't working and basically taught myself how to move again and how to move without pain. And so I really had to dissect some of the things, how was I sitting? How was I walking? How was I standing? How was I getting up and down from a chair? I mean all of these things. So everything single day I would practice and focus on that. And I added acupuncture.

I see.

So that was my first experience with acupuncture.

That was your first one because when you say that it, I think what's awesome. Not awesome, but awesome. Is that at the same time you experience what a lot of your clients experience and we have a different way of interacting when we have been in those shoes and sometimes those shoes, we don't call them blessings at that moment, but to, to be in that, to have someone and that's unfortunately very common where someone will say, I know more than you mm-hmm<affirmative> um, and tell you, and didn't identify you as Cheryl who has chronic pain, but identified you as a chronic pain patient. Yes. Um, so, you know, words have power and, and for a lot of people that pulls in, but again, you talk about that spirit of a warrior spirit of a lion that I can, I can. And I'm sure that some, some of the people that are listening can relate to that. Like if you tell me, no, I will make you regret it for the rest of your God given life. Like I<laugh>, I will make you that like that, that no, sadly put some people down and they never will come up from it. Right. And those are the people we wanna lift up and others, it just eggs them on. And it sounds like you're in that second class, you know, tell me no and I'll figure it out.

<laugh> yeah, exactly, exactly. It's um, okay, so you're gonna tell me, no, this is gonna be the rest of my life. Let me show you what I'm gonna do. And of course I couldn't have known at that moment, moment in time when she told me, but 20, 25 years later it happened. I could not do my grocery shopping in my laundry all in the same day, because several days a week I would get up in the morning. I would go and take a professional level ballet class. And then I would take my hair down and I would take Meow shoes off and I would drive across town and I would do an hour and a half martial arts class. Yeah. So who had time for things like laundry and grocery shopping<laugh> and I thought to myself though, it was one day it hit me and I thought, oh my God, that woman was right. I can't do. And, and what a wonderful thing to have that here I was after what a terrible prognosis mm-hmm<affirmative> and there I was doing ballet and martial arts and helping other people who had chronic pain get out of pain. And it was like, wow, I'm glad she said that to me.

Mm-hmm<affirmative>

Because like you said, there was that blessing and there was that, that one thing it's, it's just like that little hot poker that should a stick, you know, in your brain or your eye, it's like, okay, I'm not gonna do this. I'm not, you know, just because you said it's, this is what's true. It's not

Yeah. Yeah. Identifying your truth because at the end of the day, no one knows your body better than you and only you, you know, emotionally, psychologically can link with your body. And so that's a connection you have.

I am so glad you said that because that's one of the things that, you know, when I do talk to people on my podcast, or, you know, as a guest is to have people really understand that, that they are their own expert. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And I think that we kind of get out of that and we're, especially when you're in pain, because I mean, you're scared, you you're, you don't know, you know, what caused it, are you ever gonna feel better? And you go to the experts and you're kind of desperate and you'll listen to anything that they say, because you wanna get out of pain. Mm-hmm<affirmative> but you have to remember that the more you understand about your own body, then when you do have something like that, and you go to the experts and you understand your body a little bit more than the average person, you have information that you can share with your healthcare provider to help get you on the right path. And if that person doesn't listen to you, then it's like, okay, this is fine. Then you're not the right person for me. Right. And there's always somebody out there who can help you.

Yes. And, and that takes some looking to for sometimes mm-hmm<affirmative>, you know, and, and I like to say, I know a lot more probably about anatomy and this and that, and I can, and, and I've done a lot, but I've never lived a minute in your body. And so you have to really know what resonates and what doesn't resonate with you. And so you've done all of this stuff. You, you know, you include everything. You're, you're just, you, you definitely encompass so many different areas. What would you say now with everything? What is still on the horizon or in the rising for Cheryl? I love<laugh>.

Oh boy. That's a really, that's a tough one. Um, I'm not really sure. Well, of course there is this new book coming out and I have a couple more books that I have in the queue that I want to work on. I'm toying. And I'm just toying with the idea of maybe going back, you know, I mean, I am back in martial arts. I took a three year hiatus and then I went back right before COVID. So of course my skills were a little bit rusty. You understand how that goes? Right.<laugh> um, and then I was starting to get back on track and I was like, oh God, COVID. So, you know, that kind of put a, you know, a monkey wrench in the whole thing. And now I am back at the dojo, not as often, or as frequently as I would like to be there, but I actually have been thinking about going for the next level black belt. So right now I'm Showdan, which is considered kinda like a second degree, black belt, or first degree, depending on who you talk to. And that was, um, you know, like 27 specific techniques based on the five families that make up our art. Um, and it's the art of the ninja and the samurai. So the next step is a certified instructor level and that technique has 67 techniques in it or that level. So that's a lot,

<laugh> that? That's, that's a lot,<laugh>, that's

A lot

<laugh>,

You know, and at this point in my life, I don't know if I really do want to, um, work quite that hard, you know, with, on something like that. But there is something else that I do that, um, when I was 58, I decided it was time to start engaging in more age appropriate activities. So I started pole dancing

<laugh>

And that has been, That's been such a hoot. I mean, it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. You should really try it. It's just, it's crazy. Yeah. And it's a really interesting community too. Um, it's CRA it's really, really interesting. It's very supportive. I mean, pole kind of levels the playing field because it is so hard. And what I love about it is there are so many women in there of all ages shapes and sizes. There's no body shaming. It's like total acceptance. And a lot of women do go to poll, um, or try it to help recover from traumatic, traumatic events or experiences or, um, you know, just to learn how to accept their bodies or love their bodies. And it's, it's really very, very exciting. And two years ago I did compete. Um, my coach talked me into competing. So at the age of 63, I competed, uh, in a poll competition and I won. So

Congratulations. I love it. Thank you. I love, I love how you are just very open and you, you have your own mindset with what you're, um, willing to do, but you allow people to talk you into stuff that this movie, you know what I mean? I can tell if you're like they talk me into it and I'm like, she was allowing it to push her. And I think that, um, shows a lot of courage and also self-awareness with you mm-hmm<affirmative>. So I've been to your website, share with my audience, please, how they can learn more about you, what you have to offer, et cetera.

Well, going to the website is a good way to get started. Um, you can also go to my other website, which is the FIA project, and that's my podcast. And I am happy to inform your listeners that you're going to be a guest on my show. So I'm very excited about that. Uh, there is an awful lot of information about me on both podcast or both, uh, websites. You can also go to my LinkedIn profile and if you wanna connect with me on LinkedIn, I absolutely love connecting with people on LinkedIn. Um, so yeah, you can find a lot of information there. You could also go to Amazon and check out, um, the book forever fit and flexible. And so you'll get a little bit more information about me there. And of course my second book should be out, oh, someday.

<laugh> awesome. You know, you have a lot in, and what I really like is that you, um, you honor where you are in that, in that span, like you, you mentioned your age, but you're not going to say that is because of this age. I can't do this or can't do that. Right. And that is something I think women especially need to hear. Um, and that you can do whatever you want whenever you want. And, and it's not up for someone else. There is no quote, unquote air quotes. I'm showing here a good time to do something that interests you. If it interests you and you feel a calling, you go for it.

Cause, and I wanna add to that. Don't let anybody tell you that you cannot do something because of your age, because of your size, because of, you know, maybe, um, I don't wanna use the word disability, cause I don't like that word, but you know, a challenge, um, whether it's mental, physical, emotional challenge, uh, a lot of times, if you can find something that you really love to do, you know, that's healing in itself and the whole process is healing and you also, um, you meet a lot of really interesting people along the way.<laugh>

What an interesting person. I really enjoyed my time with Cheryl. I love and thank you so much for spending time and listening. I wanted to expand just a moment on being that warrior or allowing that inner warrior to come out because yes, some of us are being a warrior by putting out a new book or joining Marshall arts or doing something that we've never done before in our forties or fifties or sixties or anywhere in time. But for some of us, the circumstances we're in are so heavy and so large that I don't wanna underestimate the fact that waking up, getting dressed and taking one step at a time, going forward, making a meal that is being a warrior that you're saying yes, regardless of the circumstance you're in. And so thank you so much for your time and go ahead and share this episode. If you feel that this was beneficial to you or, you know, someone that it may help. And until next time let's keep building one another up.