Episode 95: How Self-Love and Money Intertwine with Joseph Okaly, CFP

Hello and welcome to in the podcast. My name is Bettina , and this is the platform I've chosen to talk about living a life that's in alignment with your hopes, your dreams, and your goals, and walking away from that shame and blame that really does nothing for you. And so in honor of your hopes and dreams and goals, I had the opportunity and privilege to speak with Joe Oakley, who is a certified financial planner, and he talks about living a life that you want using the tool called money. All right , Joe. Well welcome. So I'm so thankful that you're here this evening, which is for us evening here in the us. Thank you so much because we're going to talk about , um , one of my favorite topics and that's money.

Yes. Money's uh , money's a good one. Interesting to a lot of people in different ways.

Absolutely, absolutely. So I love, I like to talk about, you know, living a life that's in fulfillment with our goals and our hopes and our dreams and walking away from shame and blame. But when we bring up the topic of money and you're a certified financial planner , um, the money has so many emotions, they'll bring so many things up. What, what would you say got you into this career?

Yeah, so it was really a lot of luck actually. So , uh , in college I had a professor that brought in a financial planner and he talked about financial planning and honestly, I never, I didn't even know that existed in this world. So growing up in Northern New Jersey, most people, I was around adult wise, they all commuted into the city. And so I kind of assumed I was going to do that work for wall street, you know, kind of sell my soul for three to five years, something, something in that range. And , uh, and so when I heard I could use all this math and statistics and all this stuff that I actually enjoyed, but use it to help real people do real things. To me, that was like just, just amazing. And so I looked for an internship and I wound up at new horizons. And again, I was so lucky because new horizons taught me that you can go about it in a way that's comprehensive, that's holistic, but more important than anything in a way that was focused on the people and the goals they had not putting like a big number on a piece of paper. So everything I was exposed to, to what I can help people with today , um, it was really, really lucky. I didn't know that I was going to do it when I was a freshman in college. Wow .

Wow . Wow. And so with everything, you know, one step leads to another and you yourself have your own podcast. You want to describe a little bit more about that?

Sure. Yeah. So , um, as I got out of school and I started to do financial advising and really work generally with an older demographic, because people don't say like, Hey, I need some help with this stuff until they're , you know, 50 or 60 years old. And what I realized was, you know, I was applying this stuff all to myself just because I know it , I help other people, you know, why would I not apply to my own situation? And what I found is when I talked to friends and I talked to other people that were my age, like young families, that really no one had any idea what was going on. And I realized it wasn't because of anything that they did wrong. It's just that we're not really taught any of this in school. We're all going to have jobs. We're all going to make money. And we're all going to need to know what to do with that. But we're not taught anything in schools of what we should do. It's algebra and Shakespeare. And then on top of that, there's really no professional help because again, most advisors are geared towards working with people that are about to retire. So I went on my podcasting app and I just typed in young family finance and nothing came up. So I said, well, something should really come up for these people. So that's kind of what inspired me to do the podcast is kind of just seeing in my own life, how powerful it is. And, you know, I don't worry about money myself. I'm very fortunate with that because I learned all these skills. And so I can be a better father. I can be a better husband. I could be a better brother, a better son because I don't have that kind of weighing on me like a lot of people do. So my podcast is really just to try to help people and, you know, young family-wise to really get on a good path when they're young and a good mindset, more than anything when they're young, so that they don't have to live with that anxiety either.

Hmm . And I, I really applaud you for that because , um, you know, as I'm, I'm now in my forties, but I am looking back at what I did in my thirties and twenties, which was do all the right things, go to school, go get a degree, owe a lot of money. Cause I didn't have, you know , parents to , to afford graduate school and all that. And, but I didn't know what to do with it. When I finally made a living. Do you, do you feel that people are just kind of stumped from the get , go , like, do I put college money aside? Do I do a 4 0 1? How much should I put? Well, don't I buy a house? What shouldn't I pay the student loans? Like, do you feel people are pulled in many different directions?

Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's just because there there's no real direction or knowledge. So what I see a lot of young people do is they kind of do what I call checking boxes. So they say, oh, I'm supposed to have a bank account. Okay. I'll check that off. I think I'm supposed to have a 401k. So I'll check that off. I think I'm supposed to have some life insurance, so I'll check that off. Uh, but they don't really remove any of the anxiety. They're still worried about what would happen to me. If I passed away, they're still worried. It might anywhere close on a good path to retirement. And so, you know, when you, when you don't have a good idea of how all these pieces together pieces go together, like you said, you know, should I do the house or should I pay off my student loans? If you don't have simple answers to these questions, then you're kind of, you're in motion, you're doing things, but the anxiety isn't going anywhere because you're not, you know , you're not satisfying , uh , the root cause of what's causing it. So , uh, it's unfair in my opinion, that everybody's put into this situation. And like you said, you're in your forties now, if, if you had that clear direction, when you were in your thirties, you know, even if you did all the right things you would have at least had less anxiety over the last 10 years, knowing that you did all the right things. Right.

And , and you're, and you're correct because when you're working and it doesn't matter from my conversations , um, everyone's working to make the next paycheck. And because paycheck to paycheck is unfortunately so common regardless of pay , um, for, from what I'm noticing, but the anxiety that we have that we're one paycheck away from not having anything is what I see often.

That that was a great comment that you put in there that I just want to point out, regardless of pay. That's definitely something that we see a lot too, where the standard of living kind of raises with the income. And so you're still left with very little to do anything with. And so we've actually had clients that said, you know, when I made 50,000, I couldn't save anything. When I made 70,000, I couldn't save anything. Now I'm making a hundred thousand, I still can't save anything. So that's a very astute comment that you made there because that is definitely true for a lot of people.

What would you, you know, say, say, someone's sitting in front of you, they're in their thirties, they're about to have a family or have young ones. What do you say to, you know, instead of just checking boxes, what is something you would like to bring to their attention, bring to their mind?

Sure. So the first thing I think is always mindset, really understanding that, like for instance, when I was growing up , um, I thought I have to get good grades. So I get into a good school. I have to get into a good school so I can get a good job. I have to work really, really hard at my job so I can make a lot of money. And those are kind of all these supposed tos. And then our relationship with money is very much about just getting more money instead of stepping back and say, you know, why am I working so hard? Why do I want this money? And translating that into actual living actual things that make us happy in the day-to-day . And so trying to kind of get off that treadmill earlier, rather than later about why we're even trying to go through all of this, to earn all this money, you know, to begin with. So that the mindset is really the biggest thing that I think , uh, if you change, when you're young and your thirties, then you really know why you're doing the things that you're doing and why you're working and why you're trying to earn money as opposed to just doing it, because that's kind of what we're a lot of times subconsciously taught as we're growing up along the way. Yeah. Yeah.

And not just living to retire one day. And as a therapist, I've worked with a lot of people who've retired and said that they, they ran out that, you know, it's family giving them money or they could have made different decisions , um, that they were not really aware of any point in time until it's too late. And then you go back to a second job or , you know, for a job period for some of

Them. Yeah, absolutely. And , um , it, retirement is really hard to , it's another one of the supposed tos because , um, you know, you don't have to retire either. So we have a lot of clients and we've heard stories where, you know, they leave their job because they they're , you know, they're 65, let's say, and they're even though they financially can, let's say retire. They, you know, they say, well , uh, I guess that's what I'm supposed to do now. You know, I should retire. I can retire, so I should retire. And then they wind up, you know, working at home Depot or something because they just don't know what to do with themselves. So it's, you know, retirement is not, is not the end of the road. And , uh, you know, anybody out there who's about to retire. It very much encouraged them to ask themselves, you know, right now you work say 40, 50 hours a week, what do you want to do with an extra 40 to 50 hours a week? That's a lot of time. So definitely have a plan, not just financially, but also for what would make you happy after you retire.

And I like your mindset of, of a shift from the boxes to actually focus on living like experiences and not just things. Um, when you, when you have this kind of conversation with someone, do you feel that, you know, I don't know for you, how does that work? Do you get like a couple appointments with someone or do they come like do a check-in once a month or once a quarter?

Sure. Yeah. So the first thing that we always do is we talk to people, either an initial call with them to kind of see why they're reaching out and what they're wanting to do, because you know , we're not a great fit for everybody. You know, what we're trying to do is something called comprehensive planning or holistic planning. So we're looking at every part of somebody's situation and trying to point it into the direction to accomplish whatever goals they have. So my goal is not to retire early. My goal is not to make a lot of money. My goal is to find out what would make you actually happy in your life and use whatever financial tools would help you do that to the, you know, the quickest and the safest and the best of your ability, kind of a thing. So that's kind of , uh , my job of going about it. So once that there is a fit, that's what somebody is actually wanting to do, then I'll go through and I'll look at their whole situation kind of top to bottom and to see, okay, what are you making? Uh , what do you have? What are your forms of protection and kind of build out, you know, we use a , an analogy sometimes at like the financial house, you want a strong house, you also want a strong financial house, kind of a thing. And so we get a picture for where somebody is today. We have now an idea of where they're wanting to go, what would make them happy and what that translates into from a financial standpoint. And so then we design a plan to get them from where they are now to where they want to be. And , uh , it's honestly really, really fulfilling. Uh , we work with a middle-class family . So I get to help real people kind of do real things, which is really awesome. And so when, when I'm able to do a plan, especially for people that are young, because they have so much time between now and the future, that little adjustments can make just a huge impact. So when I see a family and they're really uncertain about like, what direction they're going in, if they're doing the right things and I could show them, Hey, you've done a great job saving, like you're already on a path to, you know, retire. If you just keep doing what you're doing right now. And, you know, on top of that, now, maybe you can do, you know , that Disney vacation that you were talking about, because now you're confident that you're on a track that you're happy with. And just being able to connect with people that way and really free them up to just again, make life as enjoyable as possible for themselves today. And their family today is just really, really awesome. So yeah , that's kind of what we do when we walk through people with people, we're trying to show them what path they're on and then what you, when you know what path you're on that anxiety just really dissipates because a lot of it is just an unknown. Like if you, if you have a map and in the middle of the map is you are here and then everything else is blank. That's pretty scary. So having some kind of a map, some kind of a plan can really make you feel at ease and give you confidence to go out and make life as enjoyable as you can in the present because that other stuff now isn't weighing on you.

And when you meet with people and I don't know at what level, you know, at what time, either when they're young and everything's not too bad off yet, or they're still kind of struggling with their financial situation brand new parents have medical bills, for sure. What rituals or habits do you talk to them about focusing on to change their mindset, to be able to then follow this map?

Sure. Yeah. So , uh, I like the ritual of it kind of the approach of it. So the main thing that I do and I try to teach other people to do is when you come up with a decision about money, are you, is your default answer because that's what you are maybe feeling you're supposed to do, or is that because it's something that would actually bring you closer to your goals actually make you happier. So, you know, for example, like if I got offered a job for another $20,000 per year, let's say the default mindset as well, I should take that, right. It's a lot more money, but let's say I have to commuting and working longer. I'm going to spend five hours less per week with my family. So that's a, that's a big thing. You know, I'm giving up time with the people I love most in this world for, for more dollar bills. And so it's really important to ask yourself the question, what can I do with that 20,000 now that I can't already do not just say, oh, that's great. It's more money. I'm going to do that, but what will it actually allow you to do? And maybe it'll be, you know , uh, I can take more vacations with my family. I can take them overseas to where we have relatives and they could gain that experience. And they could have, you know, something that if there's something material and substance substantial, then that's fantastic. But just go through that exercise so that you actually note while you're, while you're doing something and it translates really to even a lower level. I can give you a example of how I had a really hard time to stop mowing my own lawn, because it's something that I'm perfectly physically capable of doing. And so having somebody else do, it seemed like financially irresponsible almost, but when I looked at it differently and I said, well, every week that I do this, it takes me one to two hours to mow my lawn and do all the other stuff around it. What I rather mow my own lawn or would I rather have an extra 20, 30 hours with my kids every summer for the next 18 years. So when I looked at it that way, that it made perfect sense, it was an easy choice. Like I want to choose the time with my kids. So just really evaluating anything that it comes to money. Are you doing it? Cause you're supposed to just have more, you know, make more money whenever you can save more money when you have your can or would it actually make you happier in life?

And I like your idea of having a goal because you know, some people will feel guilty then if they have to pick up a second job or, but they're also sacrifices, right? Sometimes it's your goal to not take four years to get out of a slump because life happens. There are medical bills, there's divorce , um, you know, there's, these things happen, but if there's a time that there's a goal, but it's not just for the extra money in the bank it's to achieve this goal. Because from that comes something you really desire more.

Sure. Yeah. I mean, we have people that we've helped that are in say credit card debt or something like that. And we'd come up with a plan and it's, you know, this is what you're gonna pay off first. This is what you're gonna pay off second. This is what you're in , pay off third, and now you have to go and do this. And so maybe they have to take a second job to try to pay all that stuff off, but it's still according to a plan. So they know I'm not working two jobs for the rest of my life. They know I'm working two jobs for three years because then all my credit cards will be paid off. And now I can move on to, you know, the happier, easier phases after that kind of a thing. So as long as you have a plan, like you , you know, and you're doing it for a reason and a purpose, and like you said, not just to make more money kind of a thing just for the sake of making more money then. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, yes.

And so, you know, you really catered towards young families and with young families come kiddos and kids love to emulate. Right? And I remember watching my, my family, my parents review their finances and it was always on an envelope like this, this subtract that subtract that I just, I can always see that , um, with that. And my own son watched me because, you know, I, wasn't one of those places with all the medical bills, et cetera. And he says, you know, I'm gonna , I'm going to grow up and I'm going to make money. And I'm going to work four jobs. And my heart sank because his only idea was that you have to work so many jobs. So now I have him on the green light , you know, debit card. This is how money comes in, comes out, but what are really , um, you know, I've never had another child besides the one I have. What are your tips for like financial education through four year for their children, your clients , children, or your children?

Well, first off, that is , uh, uh, the fact that you, that, that they had some exposure to money with you is , is actually really good because so many people have no exposure whatsoever. Again, like it's not taught in school. So a lot of families are, you know, finances are taboo, kind of a thing. I pay the bills. When the kids go to bed, they don't, they don't need to know anything about money. And so they don't need to know anything about money. Then they're not learning anything about money. So with your example of your son, it's fantastic that at least something was said, something was shown because now you could take action to try to shape his mindset and the way that you want. So the fact that you, that you were, that it was open enough, that a discussion could happen is actually fantastic just to start. So I want to , you know, I hope you feel good about that at least maybe a little bit more. Um, and so when you're coming with your, with your kids and you're talking to them about money first is creating that opportunity. Like they came up with you and your son, so that there is a , a medium , there is a conversation where you have an ability and an opening to teach them. And so just like I start with young families trying to teach mindset, I, I suggest the same thing for kids. So there , there are little things that you could do, you know, like, okay, I have $20 , uh , this cost 12 and this costs aid , and this cost , you know, seven, you know, which ones do I want kind of a thing, but really the mindset again is, is the most important. You know, when I , like I said before, when I was growing up, I thought I had to get a good job so that I had to make a lot of money and all this kind of stuff, just because of the supposed tos, where I wished that my family taught me more about, you know, you're , you're working too for a reason you're working so that you have freedom of your time, or you're , you're , you're , you're working. So you can have this experience and have it more, you know , money as a tool, life focused, as opposed to, you know , uh , you know, like your son said, you know, worked four jobs to make a lot of money. You'll really connect that mindset and really establish at a young age, that money is a tool. Money is not a goal.

Yes. And that, I think the lots of money as a goal is the more prominent theme out there. And it certainly was for me for a long time. And then when I shifted the mindset to that, it is a tool that I became friends with money. Do you feel that some of your clients are almost afraid of money or have this fear just fear, anxiety, aggression towards money itself?

Uh, so I would say that that people , um, definitely get into a groove one way or another with money and how they approach it. And after it's been going for a while , it's really, really hard to change. So people that are about to retire and let's say are freer with their spending. It's very, very hard for them to now in retirement, if they have to, you know, try to pull back or tighten up because they haven't done it for 60 years. So to ask them to all of a sudden do it now is like impossible. And the funny thing is the reverse is also true. So people that are excellent, excellent savers, we have to really force them to spend more money because they're so used to working that part-time job and trying to put a little extra way. And , uh, you know, you don't spend what you don't have and you don't spend money on things. You don't need that, even when we do projections for them. And you say you have a 99% chance of not running out of money all the way out to age 95, they still have a hard time spending the money because it's just so ingrained in who they are. So again, when you start young, as young as possible, you can, you can establish a good grain because whatever grain is established, it's going to be really hard for them, for that person to get out of it. So getting the , the earlier the earlier the better, because , uh, you know, whether it's good or bad, you know, whatever's established is going to probably be there for a long time. Mentality-wise right . Right. Right.

And I don't remember the name of the book, of course, because we're having this conversation. I don't know if it was happy money or I can still see it's yellow with a smile. And , um, this author talked about having that mindset, that we can be thankful for the tool, as it passes through us, that money, if we have a lack mentality, we hoard it. Um, and then if we have a, like almost a giving mentality or giving to stores, we just never have it. It really is that we're thankful for the passing through and thankful for opportunities to learn how to use this money more effectively, that we have a better relationship with money because it is a relationship. Right?

Yeah, absolutely. And I would kind of add onto that kind of, you know, that explanation while I agree with the sentiment of, of it completely, it there all to also kind of maybe add a little bit of a more empowering piece of it is if people have a plan, then they know more of what they can give and what they can't give. And if people always save at least a piece of what they have, cause you're talking about passing through, so you work so hard for your money. Everybody out there that's listening works really hard. I'm sure for the money that they earn to give all of it, all of it away to other people every month to the grocery store, to the utility company, to the mortgage company, to your landlord, whoever it might be to do that every month work so hard and then give it all away is like crazy when you put it that way. So make sure you always first before you pay anybody else, pay yourself first. So always put money away into something for yourself first, whether that's some kind of investment or anything else, but always make sure you pay yourself first. And then if you can have some kind of a plan of what direction you're going in, then you know, you, you feel free to give the money that you can give. And if you're paying yourself first every month, you also feel, you don't feel as badly about, you know, spending maybe some money to go to the movies or something else that might make you happy. Cause you know, I already paid me, so it's okay.

And I liked the way you put that, you know, paying everyone else. And that's not necessarily other people mortgage company that the gas bill, I really liked the way you put that because it's, it , it is crazy to give it all away and have nothing. Um, when you're looking at , um, you know, having your conversations with, with young families, I know one thing is I have always been hesitant because I have yet I've done goals. I've done all this, but I have also never sat in anyone's office because I never thought about it. Like I'm a middle-class person, I'll figure it out. Like what, what do you would like, what would you like to tell people to encourage them, to see someone who has, you know , the information that you have that can make it more readily and personal , um , personally available?

Yeah. That's a great point that we come across all the time. I mean, I have young families, especially that come in and they , they're almost apologizing to me. They're so I'm sorry. You probably have bigger clients and, and you know, we , we don't have that much and, and you know, for our firm, at least we're , we're trying to help everybody. And there's a , there's a lot of people out there that are, that are trying to help people. And so it's, you know, you don't have to already have millions of dollars to work with somebody, you know , they probably worked with somebody to get to millions of dollars. So , um, you know, there's definitely a kind of a shame and an embarrassment , uh, that a lot of people tend to have, like, how is this person who handles money for a living going to judge where I am at this point? And then it just makes you freeze and you say, well, I'll kind of figure it out on my own. And you know, people that , that, that go in , they sit down with somebody and they get help. And, you know , you know , always look for somebody that, that does actual planning, as opposed to just, you know , uh, just selling you an investment kind of a thing, make sure that they're concerned about what, what your goals are and what direction you're trying to go in. And they can tell you how, what they're doing is going to help you get there and show you that. But there are , there are people out there that can help and doing that. And so I definitely understand what you're saying with that , uh, feel having those feelings, those reservations and just, you know , telling people out there you're not alone. Most people have those reservations, but the people that really feel, you know, get past that and feel much better. The people that can step over that line at some point, and it's scary. Um, but when you do sit down with somebody that that's good and that can help you , um, you're going to feel much better at the end of it.

Yeah. And I liked , I liked your frame from it because a lot of times when I watched television, which isn't often, but I'll hear wealth management, I'm like, well , I don't have wealth, so I don't need that kind of management. But in order to obtain that, having some guidance is so helpful because we can't know everything about every topic.

Right? Yeah. Absolutely. And wealth management is a super scary phrase. Like I know it has something to do with money, but I don't know what it is and it's really intimidating. Um, but , uh, but I guess poor management or wanting to do wealthy management doesn't flow as nicely. So yeah, there you go.

I like that. And then , um , I have two questions left. What would you tell like young couples with their, with their family? Cause not every couples married , um, how would you help them kind of, you know, cause I know that money is such a big thing with like reasons, for separating reasons, for not getting along reasons for not seeing eye to eye, especially if one grew up with one grew without how do you help say or what , what, what , um, what is your, from your observations that you can say, this is a statement that may be helpful for young couples to , to learn, to work as a unit.

Yeah. So the first thing is you definitely need to work as a, as a unit. So we don't meet with anybody for example, that that is married or just together has a partner where they're not both in the meeting because if you're not both there , like you're , you have a joint life, right? You have a joint situation and you need to have a joint meeting to share your goals. I can't tell you how many times we went through. And we said, okay, well what are your goals? And they thought they were on the same page and they , they weren't, you know , want people, one person wants to retire later. One was earlier, one wanted to, you know, maybe vacation or whatever it might've been or wanting to buy a house here. And they look at each other like that , you know, this is what I thought and they didn't . And so the first thing is to have the conversations jointly, because if you are together, then the finances become, you know, become a joint situation. Um, and then once you know what those goals are, then you can get into more of kind of the , the specific ways to go about doing things. So , um , yeah , I don't know if it's too off tangent, but kind of the three main areas of somebody's financial situation tend to be their investments, their insurance protection and their cashflow. So you need to have kind of a joint plan for each one of those things. And so for investments, what the most common thing, mistake that we see people making and that I see people making is that you see like Gordon gecko and Hollywood, and you know, the guy on the TV that's pulling in his face on the stock exchange of paper, flying everywhere behind him. And that becomes like the drama that becomes the reality of the investments . And it makes it really scary. Um, but we kind of preach the opposite. That investments should be very boring. And so there's like all these different areas that you can invest in all over the world. And if you had to do it on your own, it would be really difficult. But thankfully, nowadays they have very simple tools that people can use to kind of be able to get on a relatively good track. So if you're, let's say you , you're moderately kind of a risk person, you can just put your money in a moderate allocation fund and that moderate allocation fund from any one of those big companies you see on is going to do all that spreading out for you. So, you know, it might be scary to take that first step into, into this direction. But as a joint couple, once you have those goals set up, the best way that you're going to achieve them is through using some kind of an investment , um , just saving money under your mattress is not going to grow. So getting on that same page for that. And then when you go to insurance, making sure you're protecting kind of what you have. So for young families, we see so many young families that are under-insured because who wants to think about dying, especially when , when you're young, right? And you, it's one of those things where I think I have some through work or I have enough to cover the mortgage, but you know, for most people, if the mortgage was paid off, let's say you still want to like eat food. You still want to, you might have to pay your property taxes. You may still want to send your kids to college. You probably still want your spouse to be able to retire one day. So insurance is something that people kind of pushed to the side. And don't really think about when they're young, when it's really cheap, actually, when you're young, if you're in good health, especially, and it's really, really important because your biggest asset when you're young is all of your future earning potential. So it might be, you know, million dollar, $2 million, $3 million of earning potential that you can make over your whole career. So, so many people are under-insured and then cashflow, we kind of touched on and talked about already. It's just making sure you don't spend more than you make and making sure you always pay yourself first. So those are just three things that might translate to aid all age groups, really. But when you're young, those are the things that if you get up on the, on the right path with those things, when you're young and again, be together with them, with your spouse, what are we trying to accomplish? So we make sure we use the right tool, then it can just make all the difference in the world for people. That's wonderful.

And the last question for you today, Joe, is you, you, you know, you saw an , an area in podcasts of, of a deficit, you created a podcast. What else are you hoping to do? How are you going to rise up? Cause my podcasting is in the rising. How are you going to rise up to continue to spread the word and knowledge? What do you see in your future?

Wow, that's a really difficult question here. So, so podcasting wise , um, yeah, it's really interesting because I started the podcast to kind of fill the void, but I think I've, I've gotten probably as much out of it as, as I've given out to the world. I hope. And , uh, you know, being on your podcast, being on other podcasts, getting to talk to people and just, you know, help people. I mean, you look on online, you see people all over the country, some , some other, other countries being listening to what you're saying and just making that impact. And I'm not sure exactly what my next step will be to, to, to rise further, further up than , you know, w what I'm focusing on right now. But I know I'm thirsty to make more and more of an impact, you know , as much as I could do for other people. And so like , uh , my company now, my, my goal is to grow the company, but it's , it's not for profits, which sounds weird, I guess, but it's more so that we can help more people that are out there. I mean, we work with, let's say 200, 300 people, but there are millions of people out there. There are millions of young families out there. So how can I continue to try to spread the word and how can I continue to try to help people that I may never meet? And then just the bigger our company can get the more employees that we can hire and have the lifestyle through our company that we feel like is really, really healthy, really happy, really balanced , uh , where people can be home for dinner with their families, kind of a thing. Um, so really that I'm just looking to make a bigger impact in the world and hopefully , uh , God will guide me in the right direction. Well,

I think that you have so much to offer and just by creating an impact with the knowledge you have right now, you have a lot of room to grow. And , um, what you've done is already wonderful and excellent. And thank you so much for your time this evening, I've thoroughly enjoyed and , and definitely have learned a lot from

You. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It was great to be on, and I really appreciate it. A lot of those questions that you, that you asked, and I feel like you , uh, you have more knowledge inside of you as well, then you may have realized. So that, that was fantastic.

Thank you. So thank you for the compliment. I will take that. Okay . So I learned a lot from our interview today, and I really learned that I may myself have some shame and , and concern about going to a certified financial planner. So now I have put that on my checklist. I encourage you to listen and learn more , uh , from Joe, from his podcast called enjoy more thirties family finance. And if you live in the New Jersey area, go ahead and look him up and visit him to see how he can help you and your family. If this podcast was beneficial to you, you felt like, Hey, I learned something. I encourage you to leave a five-star review. It helps my podcast reach more people and make more impact. And until next time let's keep building one another up . [inaudible] .